Building the Table: How Young Professionals Changed EDUCAUSE

Sarah Buszka: Welcome to the EDUCAUSE Rising Voices Podcast where we amplify the voices of young professionals in higher education. My name is Sarah Buszka and I am a co-host of the show, and I'm very excited to introduce a new co-host for today's show, Alycia Baggett Chastang. And we are going to be your co-host for the show today. We are members and friends of the EDUCAUSE Young Professionals Advisory Committee, also known as the YPAC. So before we dive into today's episode, I want to double click on something that I just said, which is we have a new co-host. So the show has officially been launched for the past three years with EDUCAUSE. I'm so proud of that. The EDUCAUSE Young Professionals Advisory Committee has done such an incredible job of lifting the voices of young professionals. And in the true spirit of lifting the voices of young professionals and supporting the next generation, it is my honor and my true excitement to be able to hand over my mic as co-host to Alycia to pick up the torch, if you will, pick up the mic and run the show with Wes in my stead.

Sarah Buszka: And so Wes is not with us today because we figured we would love to introduce Alycia to our guests on the show today. So we would love for folks to hear a little bit more from her and learn about her today. And we also have a very, very, very special guest in this very special episode to join us in commemorating this transition, then also reflecting on more than a decade's worth of work in supporting young professionals and the next generation of leaders in higher education. So it is my true honor to also welcome John O'Brien with us today in the show.

Alycia Baggett: Yes.

Sarah Buszka: Yes. So Alycia, welcome. Thank you so much for joining us.

Alycia Baggett: Thank you, Sarah. I am honestly so excited and honored to be a part of this team. So for any of y'all who have not met me, I am a senior IT project manager at Auburn University. And like Sarah said, I'll be jumping in on the tag team from here on out with Wes for hosting this podcast. So to dive into things for today, I would like to give you an overview of what our topic is going to be about first. And this is honestly just very near and dear to all of our hearts here as well as all of you joining in. And that focus revolves around reflecting on those 11 years that EDUCAUSE has really put intentional support and community around the young professionals and just discussing the impact that that's had on higher education as a whole. So I've got a few YPAC metrics for you guys over this past decade that are really quite impressive and gives you an idea of just how much has been done.

Alycia Baggett: So in the past 11 years, we've had eight awards, over 60 YPAC members, over 120 articles and podcasts, over 150 committees and groups, and over 400 presentations and posters. So that's just coming from this young professional community in EDUCAUSE, and just round of applause for all of that work that has come out and the fruits of those labors. To dive in a little further, I know that both of our guests today need no introduction, but at the same time, we're going to give it to them because what they have done in their careers and the insight that they bring to this conversation is impressive on its own. So John O'Brien is the president and CEO of EDUCAUSE, which is a global nonprofit advancing higher education through technology, serving more than 2000 member institutions across 41 countries and over 14 million students, a nationally recognized leader at the intersection of higher education and technology.

Alycia Baggett: He's held roles that span faculty, IT leadership, system level admin and campus leadership, including provost, president, senior vice chancellor for academic and student affairs in the Minnesota state system. He currently serves on multiple national boards, including the American Council on Education and Achieving the Dream and holds degrees from Augustana University, Trinity College Dublin, and the University of Minnesota. Wow, John, that made me tired. That's

John O'Brien: Awesome. Yeah, it made me tired too. It also demonstrates the fact that I can't hold a job for very long.

Alycia Baggett: Okay. And next we have Sarah Buszka. And again, as one of our co-host of this podcast for many years, she is currently the executive director of the Applied AI Lab at Waukesha County Technical College where she leads translational industrial research that helps businesses integrate AI and robotics into their operations and workforce. She also serves as a visiting lecturer of AI at Cornell University, a faculty for EDUCAUSE teaching AI and a sought after keynote speaker. Sarah holds degrees from the University of Wisconsin-Madison and Cornell University, and she's the former chair of the YPAC and recipient of the 2024 EDUCAUSE Rising Star Award. Thank you guys both for being here.

Sarah Buszka: Thank you for having us.

John O'Brien: Well, we don't have any more time now, so it's been great time.

Sarah Buszka: We're all tired after reading that. We're all doing too much.

Alycia Baggett: Okay, so let's dive into some questions. And just after hearing the breadth of what both of you have done in your career, as well as the outputs of the fruits of your labor again in the EDUCAUSE and the young professional community, let's talk about what is your superpower? John, let's get you to go first.

John O'Brien: Yeah, I was going to say my superpower is that I like people, and I think maybe that's a true thing because that whole dynamic has gotten so pressured in 2026 where everything gets an automatic exclamation point after it. But actually what I decided I wanted to say was thinking about superpowers, all of my things that I might say as a superpower also have an offsetting challenging side. And we all have superpowers and recognizing them is great, but also you have to recognize the downside. So one of my superpowers is that I fundamentally honestly believe in shared governance. I mean, I don't just know what you need to do with a shrug and out of necessity. I actually believe that shared governance makes things better, and I think that is a superpower. On the other hand, I also know because I always do 360s, every job I've had, I always am seeking feedback from people.

John O'Brien: And one of the biggest criticisms is he can't make a decision to save his life. He's always creating committees. Talk about that. I just think of that. Another superpower for me is I'm pretty good at game playing scenarios for how things could go and planning, but then that also contributes to my dealing with anxiety in my personal life. So it's just kind of funny how the universe works. For every superpower, there's an offsetting sort of kryptonite. There we go. I said it. Okay, I'm done. Yes. I love that. Let you get a word in edgewise, Sarah.

Sarah Buszka: I love that for every action there is an equal and

John O'Brien: Opposite

Sarah Buszka: Reaction. Love the duality there, John. For me, thinking about this question, of course being on the show for the past three years, I've had the privilege of hearing so many of our colleagues in the community share their own perspectives on their superpowers. And ironically, I got an email from one of our colleagues in EDUCAUSE this week from Ben Bongers. I hope he's okay for me calling out manager of professional learning. And he actually sent me an email with respect to answering the superpower question on the EDUCAUSE Rising Voices podcast. So I figured how apropos. I'm going to read his answer because he said what he thinks my superpower is. So this is in Ben Bonger's words, but he said, "One of the best parts of having collaborated with you over the years is you make work fun. That's your next superpower. The next time you're on the EDUCAUSE Rising Voices Show, you know how to laugh and bring others along with you." So I thought that was really sweet and very timely, I think, for this episode, especially given the fact that I am handing my mic off.

Sarah Buszka: And that's something I think I'm really proud of. I really do believe that, and it's really nice to have that validation to your point, John, with the 360 from folks in our community. So I'm going to leave with that one today.

Alycia Baggett: I love that. And I can personally attest to that. I've known both of you for many years and I think that both of those superpowers I've seen in action and I've benefited from, and I'm grateful that you share that with the community at large. So let's make things fun. Let's think about the last 11 years of YPAC. Reframe our minds looking back, a lot has been done. Let's think about maybe one memorable story, whether it's a person, a project, a moment at a conference, something that captures what this initiative has meant. Sarah, I'll let you go first.

Sarah Buszka: You know exactly what story I'm going to tell here, and it's actually how I met both of you, which was exactly for me a decade ago when we were in Philadelphia at the annual conference. And this was my first time ever attending an EDUCAUSE annual conference. I had barely figured out what EDUCAUSE was. I think I had presented at a Connect conference in Chicago the year prior, just getting my feet wet. And it was my first time attending. And I remember I came with my boss at the time, which shout out to Brandon Bernier. He's now the CIO of Colorado State University. It's very much just going to be a love letter to so many people along my career, but Brandon encouraged me to submit a proposal and present and attend at the annual conference. And so I did. And it was my first time as a young professional showing up at a conference where there were thousands of people, several thousands of people.

Sarah Buszka: I was so overwhelmed. Philadelphia was my first time being there. I was completely lost, running all over the conference center, had no idea where I was going. And I think what I noticed immediately was how I felt like I was so left out. Everywhere I was looking, I saw people who didn't look like me, who seemed to know everybody and who seemed to know their way around and folks were recognizing each other and saying hello. And I felt like I was just this grain of sand on this beach. And I kept kind of feeling like, okay, where is my place here? I know I belong, but where is my place here? And I remember reading through the agenda and seeing a community group, and I think it was called Constituent Group Meeting at the time for young professionals. And it was one of the last presentation slots of the day.

Sarah Buszka: So I had already gone through a full day of feeling exhausted, being lost, all the fun things that come with being a first timer at a conference. And I'll never forget walking into this room and finally seeing some people who I think looked like me, who were at that point I was in my 20s. And I remember seeing you, Alycia, sitting in a row of the chairs right by the door. And I remember being really nervous because I didn't really talk to anyone the whole day, but also feeling like, okay, I need to just push myself and reach out and just say hi. And I remember walking up to you, introducing myself, and you turned and looked at me with your really nice Southern charm and just said, "Oh, hi." And I said hi and I introduced myself and I sat down next to you and we started talking and we totally hit it off and we ended up sharing so many stories and realizing that we're similar age, similar kind of point in our career, both working of course in higher education, all of those things.

Sarah Buszka: And we just hit it off and I felt like you were my person right away. And then we started the session and then we met some of our other legends in higher ed YPAC areas, which are Jonathan Hardy, Tina Papas, so many of those great folks. And I felt like, okay, I think we have a group here. It was small, but it was certainly mighty. And I remember leaving that session and there was kind of a vendor exhibit afterwards, and this was my first time ever going into a big vendor hall also. So the kind of group of us, the four of us with some others made it over there. And I remember this is when Tina and Jonathan were speaking with John, and that was the first time I met John, which was in that huge vendor hall in Philadelphia. I was completely overwhelmed.

Sarah Buszka: I didn't even know who you were, John. And then when you walked away, someone was like, "Oh, that's the president of EDUCAUSE." And I realized I've been talking with the president of EDUCAUSE. How cool is that? And you were speaking with all of us and you gave us so much of your time and I know how busy your schedule is during those annual conferences. And we were all talking to you about how excited we were that we all came together and all of the ideas that we had and what we wanted to do. And you were so supportive of it, John. You were listening intently, you were nodding along vigorously with us, you held the same excitement, and we were all kind of coalescing around this idea of, "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we had a community and a space where we felt like we belonged, where we were with others who were in similar positions in their career journey, where we had an organization that supported our ideas, helped us feel like we belong, and gave us some resources to help make people aware that higher education is a great career for young professionals, and this is a place where you can find your community and get started." And that was a decade ago.

Sarah Buszka: And it's crazy to think how far we've come. And now look where we are on this podcast that this team that we launched together, the YPAC has created this platform for us to share these stories. And it's truly this full circle moment for me to be able to share the story of all of us meeting on this podcast with the annual conference coming up again this time in Denver. But it just feels like such a full circle moment and we've worked so hard to build this community together and we're celebrating it now. So it's just such an honor.

Alycia Baggett: Oh, that's wonderful. Thank you for sharing that, Sarah. That was a great story. I think there's a few good themes in there too as we all prepare for the annual conference that can also encourage some of maybe new timers and other young professionals who may walk in feeling the same way. And that is to be bold, to realize that others may be feeling the exact same way that you do and just reach out to say hi and you'd likely have more in common than you realize. Secondly, I think is just showing that when you stay after something that you're passionate about, it might not all change instantly, but wow what you can build over time. Wow. And now when we go into these conferences and we see these large groups of young professionals at our various events and gatherings, it's four or five times as big as it was as that first one in Philly.

Alycia Baggett: And there's so much more energy and there's so many more of these circles and dynamics and relationships that are built. And it just makes me really proud to see that. And I think it shows efforts of lots of folks across the board, both EDUCAUSE and other institutions that have worked hard to build and sustain that community. That's a good one. John, do you have one that you would like to share?

John O'Brien: Too many to pick one, but since you're telling me to pick one, I do what I'm told. It's the cape. I don't know. So you've been talking, Sarah, about when you're new, whether you're new to a job or a young professional, you're in that awkward place trying to wonder, do I fit in? Is this a place? And the cape, which is just this goofy cape that Chris I think was the first recipient, am I right there? And it was the champion of YPAC for the year. And then that person proudly wears this wonderful goofy cape. And how could you not be put at ease and feel like this is a group where I can say what I want and not have to be on guard and careful and boy, am I sounding impressive enough because there's a guy with a cape. So to me, that one moment and that genius of coming up with that idea just kind of embodies how the community puts people at ease, how we prioritize playfulness and goofiness, but seriousness.

John O'Brien: And it's funny because as I was thinking about this, one of the continuing sort of gripes about young professionals is that nobody takes us seriously. And yet you also are the best at being playful and not serious. And I hope you never lose that because I think that is very much what you bring to this conversation. And it's incredibly warm, but it's also super strategic. Someday let's do a podcast on humor as strategy. I have a lot of thoughts on that, but I love the cape. My favorite line of poetry from E.E. Cummings, he talks about how children grow up and lose their childhood play and he says, "Down they forgot as up they grew." And I think for people of my generation, sometimes we need to be reminded how to be goofy, how to not take yourself too seriously and how to have fun.

John O'Brien: And whether it's a cape or the bling that the Rising Star Award winners put on, please keep doing that. We need it. We need humor.

Alycia Baggett: Agreed. I think that's very wise. Thank you for that advice, John. Speaking of the strategy, so let's talk a little bit about why did and why does investing in the young professionals really matter strategically for both EDUCAUSE and just higher education IT as a whole?

John O'Brien: Well, I would hope anybody listening, and if you're listening, you might be listening because you're already bought into what we're selling. You might be listening because you are a young professional trying to find a place. You may be listening because you're a seasoned professional who wants to support young professionals and emerging professionals. And I mean, wherever you're approaching this opportunity, I hope you're really thinking about telling the story of why it's a strategic investment. I mean, it's the right thing to do from a people perspective, but it's also just smart. I mean, when I go to YPAC meetings, I'm looking at the future of EDUCAUSE. I'm looking at the future of the higher ed IT and related professions. So why in the world wouldn't you want to do everything you could to inspire this generation of contributors? And the one thing I've learned again and again and again is they are waiting to be asked.

John O'Brien: Sarah, I think you're one of the most special people I know, but there's a million other Sarahs who just want to be asked and what they have to contribute is different. And how could you not want to tap in to that and have a million Sarahs, each of them with their own strengths and ready to contribute and give back to a community? And I also want to just say with all the AI, AI, AI, AI everywhere, AI is going to fundamentally change the workforce and our worlds. We don't know how exactly. I think we also know that it's going to disproportionately impact younger professionals. I mean, what are we talking about when we talk about workforce? It's the entry level work that's most likely to change the most dramatically. And so now more than ever, we need to engage with those folks to think about giving them the skills they need to be successful, thinking about retention and all of that.

John O'Brien: To me, it's like nevermind the human part of it. It is one of the strategic priorities of our time.

Alycia Baggett: I love that.

Sarah Buszka: Yes. And building on that too, I feel like just as leaders, it's our responsibility. I think about my own career path and how many of our leaders have supported me along the way, and I couldn't imagine being where I am and gotten through so many of the challenges and successes that I have without them. And a lot of those leaders have just taught me how to be a professional, have helped me strategically navigate challenging situations, have helped me plan and ideate on some of the biggest ideas and visions that I've had and helped me realize those goals. And so I feel like for us, looking at our profession for higher education, we have some incredible students at our institutions. Why would we not be tapping into that talent pool and talent pipeline to bring them into our organizations and to help usher us into those new eras?

Sarah Buszka: Especially since to your point, John, we do have a large disruptor going on. We do need to think differently about how we're educating our workforce and how we're evolving as higher education. So what better way to do that than with all of our students who are with us on our campuses and helping set them up for success in working with us and building that talent pipeline? And it feels like a no-brainer. Like you said, it's just a smart thing to do. And so I'm really excited to see how we continue to do that and how we continue to grow that as an organization and as a profession moving forward.

John O'Brien: Well said.

Alycia Baggett: Agree. I love that. Okay. Speaking about AI and all the things that have changed in the last 11 years and that are sure to change and transform our work lives as we know it in the future, hybrid work, digital first collaboration, all of those things, how has the perspective that young professionals bring on things like this, how have you seen that shape how the broader field thinks about its own future? John, I know that you obviously are stating that you're very intentional about that and have been very intentional about that, but how have you actually seen that needle move in some of those impacts?

John O'Brien: Shall I start? So the other fun thing about YPAC is it just tends to be such a warm and loving place. And I love the love fest part of this, but now let's be honest, one of the biggest ways that YPAC has contributed to making EDUCAUSE better, and it has, is by telling us what we don't want to hear. And by bringing, I mean, in those first years in particular, I would bring the leaders of the YPAC to meet with VPs to talk about your experience at the conference. I remember, I think it was Jonathan. I actually can't remember now, but we were talking about, "Well, yeah, the conference is costly, so that's a barrier." And I remember whoever it was, I'm going to say it was Jonathan for lack of a better memory. And I could say he was kind of getting mad, not angry mad, but just didn't like the way the conversation was going.

John O'Brien: And I finally said, "Zoom has made us good at picking up body language." So I'm going like, "You seem to have something to say." And it was, "Well, let me tell you what it's like to be a young professional at a university now." He said, "I just submitted a request for professional development funds for a $30 book on a certain topic and it was declined." So it's like, "Oh, okay. Thank you." That was a wake-up call that I needed to remind me of what a vast swath of our community experiences that's different from what I had experienced. So that's amazing. My favorite story though is the story about ribbons at EDUCAUSE. So in the early years of YPAC, somebody, I'm going to just say it was Tina, but it might have been somebody else and you may know, but somebody proposed, "Hey, could we have some fun ribbons instead of just, I'm a board member, I'm a speaker, I'm a this or that." There were these sort of rebellious Hulk ribbons that were circulating, but those were a very limited circulation.

John O'Brien: And they respectfully brought, "Could we do this?" And we, as EDUCAUSE said, "No, we're not going to do that." And I think somebody cited ribbon governance as the reason that we need to keep track of the ribbons. We need to have only approved ribbons. It's going to take away from the gravitas of this meeting if we just let anybody do ribbons. And then of course, I think it took a couple of years of just pounding away at ribbons. Can we have ribbons? And now, of course, it's just the most joyful and wonderful thing. I still have one of my favorite pictures is of Tina at one of the conferences, and she's got ribbons literally going all the way down to the floor. And one of the ribbons may or may not have been, "I survived ribbon governance." And so again, when we finally allowed ourselves to say yes to something that we didn't like and didn't see coming and wondered about, it's like, why in the world would we ever want to undo that?

John O'Brien: And so you've taught us to bring a little different level of joy. You've taught us to maybe say yes more often, make that more. So to me, it's a goofy example, but it's also a really serious example. And I keep telling people who I work with that I want to surround myself by people who will tell me what I don't want to hear and are going to press for the things that they believe are right. And then when we make a decision or when I make a decision, we'll rally together. But up until that point, press for what you think is right, and boy, did you guys do that.

Alycia Baggett: I love that. So yeah, I think that is a fun example, but it proves right there, and we've seen many others that the YPAC group has not just been the recipients of y'all's support, but it's truly changed the culture, programming, priorities at times. We've seen that. And so thank you guys for having an open mind and having that feedback and being intentional about that.

John O'Brien: Having an eventual open mind.

Alycia Baggett: Yeah, we got there. We got there. Sarah, do you have anything else to add about that, either whether it's changes that you've seen in EDUCAUSE itself or further, just more broadly, how the perspective of young professionals can really impact the larger themes that are changing in our higher ed and IT lives today?

Sarah Buszka: Absolutely. Two things, and I'll keep it brief because I know we have so many other things to be talking about, but one, I have PTSD from that ribbon governance.

John O'Brien: You were one of the mischief makers. Yeah.

Sarah Buszka: Oh my gosh. I remember being told, I think it was my first year as chair of YPAC and being told that there was this thing as ribbon governance. I actually think it was when I was leading YPAC that we actually finally got the ribbons because then Sophie White joined us and I was talking to her about this ribbon governance and we're like, "We got to get rid of this. The time is now." And we had some conversations and look where we ended up. It's great. And like you said, there's so much joy now, and it's one of those things where it's like sometimes we can be afraid of that change, but look at how much better we are for it. And now we couldn't even imagine not having that. So ribbon governance, it was a thing. But I think another kind of item that I'll add here too, and something that I'm really proud of is I think now I'm seeing young professionals being taken more seriously by institutions who realize how smart it is to really embrace supporting young professionals and the next generation in addition to all of their employees.

Sarah Buszka: I think disproportionately young professionals kind of get put in a category where it's assumed that we don't know anything or we're not able or ready or wanting to take on a new challenge. And however, to your point, John, that couldn't be further from the truth, especially with the other Sarahs that you've mentioned or folks who are like me. We want that opportunity. We would like to be given the chance to say yes or no. I think a really great example that I'd like to share is in the past year or two, I've changed roles. And as part of my changing roles in different jobs, I was interviewing. And for a position that I was interviewing for, I found out as a final candidate, one of the other candidates was someone who I have worked with in EDUCAUSE and has been a part of the YPAC and has been a dear friend of mine for a decade.

Sarah Buszka: And when I found out he and I were the finalists for, I would say, high level position at one of our large R1 institutions in our membership, I was thrilled to hear that because this is a huge position that was very competitive and the two final candidates were two young professional YPACers. What a great way to just show that we are being taken seriously and that our institutions are considering us for a role. And he's in that position now, and it's so wonderful to see him just flourish and to see him be supported by his institution and given such an incredible opportunity to showcase his leadership and talents. And it makes me so happy to know that we have folks who've been a part of this group who are getting those opportunities and are seizing them and then doing incredible things at their organization. And if anything, I'm going to throw the gauntlet down to our audience.

Sarah Buszka: I challenge you to consider more young professionals in your organizations for these roles. They may not feel like they can even apply, but I encourage you folks to reach out and to encourage them to apply because when you give folks like us the opportunity, we are hungry and eager and ready to take on these challenges. I think we have a lot of energy that we bring with us that can really, I think, unite a lot of us, especially in this day and age where AI can be such a big disruptor. I think we really know how to bring people together in an exciting and strategic way.

Alycia Baggett: I love that. That's great. Okay, so thinking back on this 11 years and then thinking forward for the next decade, I know it's hard to say that there's truly a goalpost mission accomplished as you will for that young professional support at EDUCAUSE, but John, I'd love to hear from you about maybe what you think that success for the next decade and the support behind Young Professionals, what that may look like or what you would hope that would look like.

John O'Brien: What a good question. The story of the creation of YPAC, and I know this because I created it, I was there. You were there. I was there. It was when I first started and I did what somebody else did and I thought it was a cool thing to do and it was do a listening post. We just did seven questions. What does EDUCAUSE do really well that we shouldn't change? What don't we do that we could do? It was very simple. Then I gave my email address and it went out to 20,000 people and I was still like, "Don't give your email. Don't do that." But I thought, no, I wanted to have it be something that everybody would feel like we were asking a genuine question and then we were going to listen to what we heard. One of the strongest recurring themes from that listening poll was from young professionals who said, "I look around, I go to meetings.

John O'Brien: Apparently I have to have an age that starts with a five or a six before I can be on an EDUCAUSE committee and we would like you to see us and involve us." So that's why I created a group to create momentum around that. I did what had never been done before for really good reasons. I said, "I want this group to report to me and I'm going to meet with them. I'm going to be the staff lead. I'm going to be the Sophie White of the YPAC group because I want to make sure when it finds obstacles, we can get through them and that it will find the momentum to make itself inevitable and irreversible." Now we're there. I announced my retirement yesterday. I'll be gone in a year. I have complete. It's 2026, so I don't know how much confidence I have in anything because there's so much uncertainty and question marks.

John O'Brien: But the one thing I'm sure of is that YPAC has enough momentum. It's got its own. Those statistics you read at the beginning are wild, the degree to which YPAC folks are already part of the community contributing. Part of me thinks maybe in 10 years the success will be we're no longer needed, that it'll be just indistinguishable from EDUCAUSE. Oh, EDUCAUSE, that's that place where it's welcoming to seasoned grizzly veterans and brand new emerging professionals and young professionals. And maybe that would be pretty awesome if that was the case. What I actually think is more likely is that when we crack the code fully on young people, we're going to find there's a whole other demographic that is also not feeling seen, not feeling heard, wants to be part of our community, but doesn't know how and doesn't feel welcome. It'll be the old former young professionals who are going to say, "I know how we can do this.

John O'Brien: We've done this before and we'll find ways to create energy where it's most needed." That's my hope.

Alycia Baggett: I love that. Thank you for that wisdom and thank you for the intentionality and actually putting those thoughts and beliefs into action over this last decade. We've seen it, we've felt it, and I think you're spot on on where the future takes this and where we can grow to. Thank you for that leadership and that direction over your time here at EDUCAUSE. Okay. One more question and I'll open this up for both of you. Is there any key takeaway, message, lesson, maybe something that we didn't get a chance to talk about today that you'd like to lead the audience with? Sarah?

Sarah Buszka: Well, I will kind of double down on something that John said and answer your question because I really see the mission accomplished for EDUCAUSE and supporting young professionals similar to John, such that we don't necessarily even have to make a distinction. We see representation of folks who look like me from a community that identifies as a young professional. And then to John's point, maybe there's new communities that we don't even know about yet who might be feeling similarly. But seeing that representation, I think at every level of the organization writ large, from the board of directors to advisory committees, to community group leaders, to presenters, to podcast hosts, every level. I think if we have that representation, I think that really signals that we walk our talk, that we value the perspectives of everyone in this organization and they don't have to look like a certain type of person and they don't have to have a certain title to be valued and feel included and like they belong here.

Sarah Buszka: That's what I think the mission accomplished looks like. I think the last thing I'll leave everyone with is maybe another gauntlet to throw down is to challenge folks to rethink how they are structuring their teams and their leadership and to think about a question that I consider very often is what got us here won't get us there. What do we need to be doing to think differently and how do we challenge ourselves to grow and evolve so that we're always pushing ever upward? That's kind of a phrase I've been saying a lot is how do we think how we're just moving forward? What does that look like? I don't know if I necessarily have the answer, but I would love to hear others' answers and how you're thinking about this and would love to leave the audience with that question of how are you pushing yourself forward?

Sarah Buszka: What does the next era look like for you? What does ever upward look like for higher education?

John O'Brien: That's wonderful.

Alycia Baggett: John?

John O'Brien: I want to pull out something that we haven't talked about at all, but to me has been one of. I mean, the thing that really happens when you really listen to someone who you haven't listened to before is you learn things. I would say one of my biggest learnings over this decade, which has been so much upheaval, what I've learned from this community is the importance of mental health and wellness. And you have really taught this community what that means, what it doesn't mean, what it looks like. I just want to say thank you for that and also stress that that mission is probably never going to be accomplished because we have so much work to do as human beings, but I think what you've done so much to help us to build that into the structure of just what reality looks like, to de-stigmatize elements of that.

John O'Brien: I just want to say thank you and also just keep that on the forefront of what we're proud of, but also what we know we need to keep working on.

John O'Brien: I'll use my last, before I do my John out mic drop for my retirement, is to say that working at EDUCAUSE has been the honor and privilege of my professional life for these 11 years. Having said that, the work with the young professional group has been the joy of that life as well. I just feel like it has enriched my work experience to a level that I never could have predicted 11 years ago. I say that so that the folks who are listening, who are wondering, "I wonder if I should do something at my organization to maybe I should create something." We've got people who can help you with that. It has made my career just so much deeper, richer, and more joyful. I would encourage anybody who's interested to talk to any of us, myself included.

Alycia Baggett: I love that. Thank you for that offer and thank you for that sentiment. Thank you guys for sharing your time today. I just want to give a couple of extra thanks and shout outs to both of you. Sarah, you have served both EDUCAUSE and the young professional communities through this podcast for years, and I know that you have a lot more to give and I'm so excited along with so many of our other folks to see where that takes us and where that goes and grows. Thank you for your time and thank you for your leadership in this community. John, same goes to you. Thank you so much for taking the initiative and actually putting these thoughts and needs into action and making a difference in the YPAC community at large and leaving a legacy that I think will continue to grow even after you sell off into retirement next year.

Alycia Baggett: While we will miss you, this is a well-earned, deserved retirement and we wish the best for you on that.

John O'Brien: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you both so much.

Alycia Baggett: Thanks everyone. Thanks everyone for spending time with us today. We appreciate it. We'll just see you at the next Rising Voices Podcast and we'll see y'all in Denver.