Getting Acclimated to Higher Ed: A Guide for New Professionals

Wes Johnson: Welcome to the EDUCAUSE Rising Voices podcast, where we amplify the voices of young professionals in higher education. I'm Wes Johnson and I'm joined by the amazing, the fantastic, the wonderful.

Sarah Buszka: The fabulous Sarah Buszka. Hi everyone.

Wes Johnson: And we are your co-hosts for the show? We're members and friends of the EDUCAUSE Young Professionals Advisory Committee, also known as YPAC. And today we're going to be talking about being new to higher education. And I'm here with the forecast professionals on this topic. So, Sarah, I think you all had a talk on this. You want to tell us a little bit about that before we introduce the guests?

Sarah Buszka: Yes, absolutely. So the context here is especially for our young professional listeners, a challenge that I had a lot when I started in higher ed was just knowing how to navigate the space, what to expect, how to be successful, all of those types of things and the guests that we have on the show, who will introduce shortly, and I have partnered to be delivering an EDUCAUSE webinar and Quick Talk for folks who are new to higher education, to answer some of those questions and to help folks not only feel, supported in their journey when they're coming into higher education.

Sarah Buszka: No matter from what industry, or if their early career, mid-career or even late career, but helping folks really understand and orient successfully into the higher education landscape as professionals. And so today, I am so excited to have two of those co-hosts co guests, if you will join the show today to talk a little bit more in depth and share their advice and knowledge and wisdom and how they've successfully navigated coming into the higher education landscape and ecosystem, and hope to impart some of that wisdom and some tips and advice and tricks for our listeners today.

Sarah Buszka: So without further ado, I am excited and thrilled to introduce both of our guests today. First is James D'Annibale. James is currently the Director of Academic Technology at Dickinson College, but more importantly, he is a husband, dad and a youth soccer coach. After reflecting on some things recently, he's figured out that the thing he enjoys most in his work is making connections with people to build new things that are slow moving institutions otherwise wouldn't have thought to do.

Sarah Buszka: We also have Leslie Mojeiko on the show. Leslie is a senior instructional designer at the University of Florida, where she works with faculty and staff to design and facilitate courses, programs and initiatives related to teaching with technology. She is an active member of EDUCAUSE, previously the chair of Y PAC and Rising Star recipient with me, Sarah.

Sarah Buszka: And is currently serving on the EDUCAUSE Program Planning Committee, a group working on planning the EDUCAUSE 2025 Annual conference in Nashville. Leslie and James, welcome to the show. Glad to have you here.

Wes Johnson: Thank you for having me.

Sarah Buszka: So the first and most important question we need to ask you before we dive into this juicy content is what is your superpower? Leslie, can I start with you?

Leslie Mojeiko: Sure. And I've been on the podcast once before and was asked this question. Unfortunately, I've not, I don't think, developed a new superpower since. I said before curiosity, just because I feel like I. I love to learn. I'm well aware that I have so much to learn. There's like, there's just so much out there. So, I will continue to lean on that is my superpower. And I've got a little pixie power now.

Sarah Buszka: I love that. Curiosity powered by pixie. I love it. Thank you. And, James, what about you?

James D'Annibale: I don't remember what I said last time I was on the show. But I just thought of a new one on the spot. It's actually kind of a disability and a superpower at the same time. I have had a lot of concussions, and I forget friends quite often, which in higher ed can be a superpower because when bad things happen or people are jerks or whatever it is that everybody else thinks about for weeks. I just forget and I move on.

Sarah Buszka: I love that that, you know, my motto lately has been just let it be easy. And I think that's James. You've had that just, like baked into you now for years. That's. Yeah, I love that.

So thank you for sharing.

Wes Johnson: I'm going to I'm going to start with you, James, because I'm hoping that you're still remembering, or at least a little bit of the start of your hybrid career. As we get to the questions. Going on right now for where it goes away. So thank you. Starting with you, can you share a welcome to higher ed moment, one that particularly stood out for you, whether that was positive or negative or in between?

James D'Annibale: Yeah. I this is like I'm usually a very positive person and and optimistic in general. But I think my, my welcome to higher ed moment was a really mean email that I got from a professor. And it just opened my eyes to the fact that, faculty are a class of employee that are unlike any other classroom employee in the world. This certain person said stuff in the emails that would probably get you fired anywhere else. You know, I had a boss at the time that that was really cool and coached me up on how to respond in a productive way, but also, you know, making sure that the person know that I was right and they were wrong. And and. Yeah, but but yeah, that was the that was the welcome to higher ed moment.

Sarah Buszka: That's a hell of a way to start.

Wes Johnson: Yeah. Yeah.

Sarah Buszka: Well maybe I think if I can take like 30s James what was like one key takeaway that helped you navigate that situation. Like that one piece of advice that your manager gave you.

James D'Annibale: Yeah. So so the questions you guys sent over ahead of time. Got me thinking about, you know, what's something that, like, people don't really know about higher ed. And it's that for the most part, faculty are just regular old people like everybody else. You know, they, you know, they watch sports, they go golfing, they have kids at home.

James D'Annibale: Like they're just regular James and Joes, you know? And that's something that that my boss at the time, who was also a lifelong mentor for me, really just kind of imparted there like, you know, this guy, you know, is they're all regular people. This guy just happens to be a jerk, just like a lot of other people are jerks. You know? So treat them the same way you would treat any other jerk, you know, in a professional setting. Of course, you know, but, like, you know, it's his title and degrees and everything don't afford him a different response than I would give somebody else. And it.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah. I like that. I like that advice of just like seeing the humanity in folks too, and just recognizing that, you know, titles, degrees and whatever doesn't necessarily make someone special. Right. And it can, I think, help you, you know, talk yourself down from feeling really worried and, and, you know, stressed out about how you might respond to this individual with this title win. At the end of the day, they're person just like you. They take in, they're just like you. You know.

James D'Annibale: And I ended up having a great relationship with that person. It just started out weird. Rocky.

Wes Johnson: Yeah, you just forgot it. And y'all saw each other again later?

Sarah Buszka: Yeah, that's James is a real superpower. And that's been the superpower all along

Leslie Mojeiko: It's not forgiveness. It's forgetting.

Sarah Buszka: For me. Yeah.

Wes Johnson: Well, I actually I'm curious for you. Thinking back, is there one thing you wish you knew when you started back then, and Harry, that you know now?

Leslie Mojeiko: Oh, okay. So something I wish I knew I, I wish I knew how constant change was. Like, I think I anticipated there would be some change, but my entire career has been in higher ed. It's been more than 15 years now, and in graduate school I studied higher ed administration and student affairs. So this is just like my whole world. And when I was in graduate school, I would learn these theories around student development and learning and I would really hold on to those theories. But then as years pass, we have a deeper understanding about the way students learn. And there are new issues in the world. There's new technology, there's new political and cultural layers. And so the theories that I learned in graduate school are not all as relevant today. The technology I used at the beginning of my career is totally different today. And the issues that I face on a daily basis are it's like, I never know what's going to happen next. So I think if I, I don't even know if anyone could have predicted that to that extent when I was, you know, 15 years ago, starting out in higher ed. But today, I would say if anyone is starting out in higher ed to really try and prioritize adaptability and flexibility, because ever since I has been a part of the conversation, I've realized that if I feel like an expert one day on something tomorrow, I'm not going to be because it's different. Like there's just constant change. And if you really hold on to the way you think something was or should be, it's really hard to just move forward and go with the flow. So if you're not like James and haven't had concussions and forget you, you still need to, you know, take a deep breath and say, okay, let's just move forward with the things that are in my control and let go of the other things when you can.

Sarah Buszka: So what I'm hearing is the two main superpowers to have working in higher education are aphasia and adaptability. And if you have. Both, you're even better.

James D'Annibale: If I didn't ask for advice right now, that flexibility and adaptability like, yeah, a lot of times in higher ed, especially at small schools like where I've worked, the org chart is not big. Like there's not a whole lot of room for upward movement on the org chart. And being flexible and adaptable and being able to do different things horizontally can often lead to the vertical movement, or at least more respect from top down. That could lead to raises or more responsibility in a good way. Not bad responsibility. But yeah, just like I always look to see what you can learn horizontally.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah. And, you know, you're leading us into our next question, which is very apropos of, of this kind of general topic, which is navigating that complex political landscape. And I know when I first started in higher education, when my supervisor was telling me, you need to understand the politics of the organization, I had no idea what the heck that meant, right? No clue. No clue. And, you know. Obviously, you know, when we've been all working together and when we've been delivering our webinar and quick talk, we've we've talked a lot about that. And I think that's been one of the bigger questions that we get asked. So I'm curious, you know, from Lesley, from your perspective, we'll start with you. How do you navigate that complex political landscape? And, you know, all of those varied priorities that come up within that context? And what are your tips and tricks for folks for how to do that?

Leslie Mojeiko: Yeah, I, I was really happy that you all invited me to be a part of this talk, because I think I needed to reflect on some of this myself as like, it's not just people who are new to higher ed or young professionals, but people like myself who feel like, well, I've been here for, you know, more than a decade, but I have days where it's hard to recognize what's happening around me. The landscape just looks so different and so the the strategies we share in that webinar to new professionals are, I think, really important for individuals like me too, who need to pause and acclimate to this new environment that we're in. So, you know, we talk a lot about finding your key players. And for new professionals, that's the people who you work with closely, but then also those services and individuals at your institution that support the work you do and support the people you serve. Getting to know all of those people not only helps you navigate some of these challenges, but, it makes you so much better at your job when you're not just operating on your own. So I, I think the people are the most important part of any role you'll ever have. And one of the things that I like to highlight is to really focus on finding a swim buddy. And what we define that as is someone who is there alongside you navigating these complex changes. It might be someone who's hired alongside you or you keep seeing the same people at the same committees, the same projects, the same events. Those people often see you better than you might see yourself. You know, you've got you're focused on certain issues. You might have some imposter syndrome, but those people around you often push you to take risks, try out new things, and believe in you more than you might believe in yourself. That's been my experience, so I definitely recommend connecting with the people around you. The other thing is networking though. You know, I always say, like, as an introvert myself, I don't really love the idea of schmoozing in a crowd, but I mean it in a way where you're engaging with people who matter to you and can help support your work and your. It's been, just amazing for that. All of you here are friends that I've made through educators, and it's so valuable to just grow your network in a meaningful way. Just engage with people. There might not need to be an end goal, but just that having that support. And the last thing is that we say is plant your roots, find what you value and shape your position around that. I've never been in a role where I can't make it my own. Like every role I have, it doesn't have to look the same as the person before me, but I get to put a Leslie spin on it and make it my own. That motivates me to keep going.

Sarah Buszka: I think those are great points, and I think that we're one of those kind of few areas in, you know, the professional workforce where we have that flexibility to to really shape our roles, I think more so than in private sector. And that's another thing that, you know, can be different and challenging, even for folks coming in to higher education from private sector, for example. So those are great, great recommendations. Thank you for sharing. James, would you like to add anything?

James D'Annibale: Yeah. One of the things I learned from that, that same mentor I talked about earlier, my my boss, when I first got into higher ed, he phrased that a little bit differently, but one of the best lessons I learned from him was to figure out when it's better to appear interested or interesting, and that can really help you to navigate the political landscape.

Because if if people if you appear interested at the right moment, then people notice that and it makes them feel good about their work. And then when it's time for you to be interested in, then they are ready to be interested in you. And and just he, he he, he has, a guy named Jose. He, he's a CIO at another college. He's from Haiti. So he's got this, like, French Creole accent. And when he says that, it sounds a lot better.

Sarah Buszka: But we'll have to have him on the show for that.

Wes Johnson: But it is a great lesson that he taught me, and I've really carried it on through, through my career. And it really helps because, you know, like, networking doesn't have to be go rubbing elbows with people and talking about stuff. It can be just going to the thing that somebody else cares about and appearing interested in it. The summer. The science faculty did like, research, presentation day for the students that were on campus doing doing their research projects. I didn't understand a single word in any of those presentations, but you better believe I was there, paying attention and pretending like I knew what was going on. The students noticed the professors notice, you know, the next time I'm doing a thing about like, oh, you know, how we can use a our video survey for AI or whatever, you know, that's just one more step of, okay, James came to this thing and it looked like he cares about what we're doing. Maybe I should care about what he's doing.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah.

Leslie Mojeiko: James, that's. I think a lot of your dad's skills coming into play, too. You've got to care about a lot of things that you don't really care about. Like that's a that was.

Wes Johnson: I'm a soccer coach. I'm a Ted Lasker of Youth soccer. Soccer team.

Sarah Buszka: We are serious.

Leslie Mojeiko: Oh, my gosh.

Sarah Buszka: Has many superpowers. Through the aphasia comes in.

Wes Johnson: Well, James, staying on you for a second. What's, one common if there is one, maybe one common misconception that you'd like to either debunk or maybe even validate is, regarding working in higher education, I think there's a misconception that higher ed is slow to change, and I, I guess that's it is slow to change. The fact that it's slow to change isn't a misconception, but something that I learned even just in the last few years, was the reason why higher ed is slow to change.

James D'Annibale: I think the reason is the misconception that the. I think the view from outside on why higher ed is so slow to change or resistant of change is because people just don't want to change, right? And no, we've always done it the same way and it's always worked. Whatever, whatever. And I've come to learn that, it's really more about being deliberate and making sure that we're not jumping on a trend just for jumping on a trend, and that it's something that our institution truly needs to do. And is, you know, matching up with the mission and matching up with the resources that we have. You know, I think back to when everybody was all about MOOCs. You know, like, everybody needs to offer MOOCs. Look, look, look, look, look. Right. MOOCs are going to be the death of education, right? And, you know, there were some places that jumped on that and I'm assuming did. Well, but like thinking where I worked at the time, like my president at the time was like, oh, you know, James, we should make some MOOCs. And I'm like, well, hold on, let's, let's do the higher ed thing and slow down. We ended up not doing that and that kind of fizzled out. You know, I just I think it is it should be packaged more as a deliberation than a slowness. Maybe that's the misconception.

Sarah Buszka: You know, and adding to that, too, since I just started in a technical college system, public technical college system, there's a lot of regulations, right? And laws that are sometimes, you know, prohibiting those types of fast changes in pivots with good reason, because it uses taxpayer money to support whatever direction is proposed. Right. And of course, folks want to be deliberate and intentional about spending taxpayer dollars wisely. So that's also something that I would agree to. And I didn't realize that when I first started in my career, I started in a very large public, large research university, and now I'm back on the public side after doing a private stint. And I kind of forgot about I had my own aphasia, I guess I kind of forgot about. Some Public regulations and things that are in place for good reason. And so your point, I think on the outside, you know, the perception can be, well, they don't want to change, they don't like changing. And I'm not saying that that isn't true. I think we've all run into those pockets. Those people, those those committees. Right. Sometimes we may have even been them ourselves. Right. But there are other, you know, mechanisms and structure in place that are there for good reason.

Wes Johnson: Well, Leslie, maybe you can help me out with this thought now, too. I'm going a little off script. So at the start, you know, we talked a little bit about where it's like being adaptive, flexible. They're hiring can bring a lot of changes you got to adapt to. But then we're also now agreeing that change is slow and hybrid. So need anyone here. But I'll start with you Leslie. Any further thoughts on like what is that change? Because I agree with both statements. But I'm curious like what is the change we're talking about? You need to be adaptable for versus like the conventional sense of higher ed is slow. We don't change.

Leslie Mojeiko: Yeah, it's tricky because, like James said, you really should be deliberate in what you're doing. You know, I give it time to, like, iron out. What are the challenges? And don't just recommend things. Don't just push technology for technology's sake, but actually think about what are the objectives here of what it is we're trying to accomplish. I, I think about adaptability being important in that you may roll something out and feel really good about it, whether it is a new technology project, training or whatever it is. And because everything is evolving so much that you're going to have to potentially pivot or re redo that project, we do that training. Add to it. You've understood now more complexities to the situation. I think the goal is don't get so attached to something that you're not willing to adjust and improve. Don't get so attached to the idea behind something that looks really like fancy, and people are talking about it left and right. Try and stay focused on the values that of your unit, the values of the people you serve, the end goal. And and I think that will help you drive the end product. But I yeah, I think it's a it's a mix of both. But just like don't don't be so attached. Just relax. Forget about what you knew yesterday. Move forward. Yeah, I don't know. There's no magic formula, but I think it all mix of both.

James D'Annibale: I think there might be a magic formula though. I…

Leslie Mojeiko: Well give it to me.

Wes Johnson: Let me get my notepad real quick.

James D'Annibale: I'm going back to my my MBA here. I like strategy versus, operational stuff, like, I think like strategic stuff needs to be slow and deliberate. And the operational stuff is where that flexibility and adaptability really comes in at best for formula. And I think the ultimately, if the operational flexibility is done well, it then leads to the institutional strategic change that's a little bit more deliberate.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah, I love that. And building on it. Just to wrap this up a little bit, I think what I was hearing you say earlier, Leslie, was, you know, talking about a lot of the change and needing to be flexible and adaptable because we're all working in technology. We are getting exposed to new technology products, tools, services at a pace that none of us have ever seen before or really dealt with. And that's kind of juxtaposed in the context of these higher education systems, which traditionally aren't designed to be changing on a dime, sometimes multiple times a day. So I think that creates a lot of institutional inertia, right? With these changing products, changing technologies, changing service models, changing pricing models, all of that stuff. And we're trying to kind of fit that into these boxes. That is the institution. And we're finding that there aren't any more boxes to fit it into. And I think that creates that inertia and that challenge. And I think for us as higher education technology professionals, we are now having to hold both of those concepts together at the same time, overlapping simultaneously. And I think that's where we get a lot of that friction, because there's different rates of change, and we're trying to adjust and bring it to some equilibrium. But to James's point, perhaps we just can't do that. Perhaps that's, a moot point, right? Perhaps we just focus on that strategic piece still being at a slower pace of change, and then the operations piece being maybe at a faster pace of change, instead of trying to make it all be one, one thing and setting us up for failure. At least that's how I felt in my experience. And I think, you know, moving forward, at least in my new role, I'm trying to figure out where can I just run, where are the fences, where, you know, I can just run up to and where the places where I need to stay back and be a little bit more deliberate. I think that's a big challenge for all of us right now.

Leslie Mojeiko: Yeah, it's definitely nuanced. And I think that a myth that I because some of these things do move slow, I think people tend to think maybe everything is like that. And I get asked sometimes you get summers off and I'm like, where the heck? Where did that come from? How do I sign up for that? But and all of my roles in higher ed, I'm constantly working hard. Like there's never a dull moment. There's always a lot of work, and maybe it's part of a me problem, but it's not slow. And I think that I, I would want people to know that about higher ed, that there's a lot that goes on behind the scenes.

It may appear slow for certain things, but part of that is being deliberate and spending time researching and testing and all that.

Sarah Buszka: So yeah, no summers off. No summers off. Yeah. Who can we, you know, send our requests to to get summers?

James D'Annibale: You know, I proposed that my last school was having some budget problems. I'm like, hey, are you go around and see what jobs could be moved to 11 months and who would voluntarily do that? You save hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah. Interesting.

James D'Annibale: And they didn't take me up on that.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah. Yeah. Not willing to change that quickly.

Wes Johnson: Besides, take summers off. James, is there a takeaway or something you want to leave with the audience?

James D'Annibale: Oh, can Leslie go first?

Leslie Mojeiko: Yeah, absolutely, sure. I wanted to just add the, EDUCAUSE conference last year, we had a panel on why you should invest in young professional tools. And before we did that panel, we had this suggestion box in front of us where we had young professionals and put in any challenges that they faced in their career in higher ed. And I had chills when I read them out loud at the beginning of that panel, because not even exaggerating, like 90% of them said the same thing. They said, I want to be taken seriously again and again. I want to be taken seriously and I felt that. I felt that early in my career and still sometimes to this day, because of the like James alluded to, there's a bit of a caste feeling in higher end. I if anyone is watching this, that is, has been in higher education for a while, or they're more seasoned. If there's a way that you can include young professionals in the conversations, make them feel valued, learn their names. That is a simple enough strategy, to make someone feel confident and want to work hard for you. My very first position in Higher End, my immediate supervisor was wonderful, but the leadership above her. I worked with this person daily. Like we went to events together. We had weekly brunches as a group. This person could never remember my name. And she would tell me that. She would say, I don't know what it is. I just cannot remember your name. And I get Mojeiko is complicated. But at the time I was Leslie Martinez. I think Martinez is simple enough. She couldn't remember my name and it made me feel so small and not included. But I would think, you know what? I am young and I'm new and I'm. I'm not important. That's how I felt at that moment. But one day I walked out into the hallway and the dean of the college came up to me and said, hey Leslie, I read this article you wrote. Great job! And just kept walking and I like wanted to cry. I was like, oh my God, he said, Leslie! And then he read something that I wrote, like, how nice is that? The dean of the college and to this day, more than 15 years later, I remember that he knew me and it made me feel so good. So if you can just be kind to young professionals and make them feel valued because it does make a huge difference.

James D'Annibale: So that so I was thinking about this earlier, not in reference to this podcast, but well, as you just said, reminded me that I like I have a new person on my team. She started in May, I think, which is a terrible time to start in higher I, you know, an academic, nobody's around. Right. But like one of the things that she, you know, she was a high school teacher, she's new to higher ed. One of the things I plan on doing the school year is just like bringing her along the meetings. And I'm going to tell her ahead of time, like you're not contributing here. Like, I want you to sit in the back and just listen and then when the meeting's over, we'll debrief on, like, what happened? Who was there? What, like dynamics were at play, like. Like what this meeting was. And I think, you know, that cost nothing, right. Like I guess it cost the 45 minutes or whatever. Like she could be doing something else. Right. But but I feel like people that are new to higher ed or really at any level. Right. Like I would love for my CIO to be like, hey James, come with me for some CIO meetings and just sit there and listen, right? Like, I don't know what she does on a day-to-day basis. Right? I would love to know what she does on a day-to-day basis. Like, besides the meetings that I'm at, I think that's just a really good professional development strategy that I don't know. I've never seen anybody else do it. I yeah, I, I doubt I just invented something. I'm sure it's a thing for the fans. I'm a management professor, probably has written books about like that is a thing that I'm, that I'm hoping to do with my new person. And I think that's something that that everybody in leadership role should be doing with their, their people.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah. Job shadowing. I think that's what we're going to call it. Yeah. Yeah. Oh yeah.

Meeting shadowing. Well that's good too because then she doesn't have the expectation to have to like take notes or do something. And I feel like we typically do that to new professionals to higher education. We we put those tasks on them. We we make them come to those meetings, take the notes, do the project management, take some action item. But then that takes away from their learning. So I love that strategy. And Leslie, thank you for sharing that really personal story too. And that that's such a it's like you said, it's a small point, but it has a high impact. And really what you're saying is and what we all this is my call to everyone listening, is we're responsible for developing the next generation of talent. We need a talent pipeline in higher education. We've continuously struggle with that and are struggling with it even more. Right now. It's our responsibility to reach out her hand and to invite people in, because at the end of the day, we're going to need staff to help us implement all of these crazy projects and things that we're talking about and working on, and we need folks to do that. So inviting someone and bringing them to meetings, remembering their name and using it appropriately and correctly. And yes, those two are different and important equally is necessary and urgent.

Leslie Mojeiko: Yeah, there's such small things that can make a big impact on an individual.

Sarah Buszka: So yes. Well, while we're wrapping up, since we're getting close to time, I want to give a small plug to just in the spirit of this episode, because EDUCAUSE is launching a brand-new Early Career Accelerator program coming up this fall, which will be kicking off at the annual conference in Nashville. So bring your cowboy boots. But I want to give a plug for that to for anyone listening, if you heard this episode today and you felt like, wow, this is great advice, I feel seen. I really want to take that next step and figure out how to actually set myself up for some additional success. To prepare me for progressive, high impact roles, please consider looking into the America's Early Career Accelerator program. I think it'll be a great fit and help you really hone a lot of the skills that we've talked about today, and of course, reaching out to any of us and attending our upcoming webinars and quick talks on this topic, two or revisiting previous ones is also a great resource as well.

James D'Annibale: I think I'm signed up as a mentor on that program.

Sarah Buszka: I am too, I think we all are. Yeah, yeah. So people will be joining. Yeah. What could go wrong? No.

Wes Johnson: And I vouch for James. He will remember your name.

Leslie Mojeiko: Despite the concussions.

James D'Annibale: I'll put it on my calendar. If it's in my calendar. Everything goes in the calendar.

Leslie Mojeiko: Even if you struggle with remembering names, just don't admit it, you know, don't tell them constantly.

James D'Annibale: I may not remember names, but I'm really good at remembering context. So I might not remember Leslie, but I'll remember, like what you do, right? Like, oh yeah, I so, like, I kind of introduce people by like, what they do and what I remember about them instead of their name. Just like just with the concussions. My brain just doesn't do names, you know, like, yeah.

Sarah Buszka: Yeah, you figured out to work around. Well, with that, everyone, I just want to say thank you so much for being on the show. Leslie and James, always wonderful to have you and have your advice, insight, wisdom, superpowers, aphasia, adaptability, all of it. We love it. Thank you so much.

Leslie Mojeiko: Thank you so much for having us.

James D'Annibale: Go Yankees.