The Higher Ed Talent Reckoning: Retirements, AI, and Retention

Michael Cato: So let's start with this question. And I ask this of both of you. What's one trend that you're seeing right now that you think is likely to reshape the higher education workforce? The workforce and leadership over, let's say, the next five years.

And as you're describing it, are you seeing differences between how it might be showing up in different sectors of higher education? And, Jackie, how about we start with you?

Jackie Bichsel: Okay. Well, I think, some of the demographic shifts that we're seeing are really going to, impact higher education much more than I think people are even talking about. So number one, at one end of the age spectrum, we have, a whole slew of retirements that that we've been seeing recently as well as, are going to keep coming.

With baby boomers retiring from largely from leadership positions and, just, just more people hitting retirement age in general. And then at the other end of the age spectrum, we don't have quite the number of replacements that are exiting, the workforce. In addition, we've got an enrollment cliff, where we're seeing fewer, high school seniors entering into higher education.

And so that's going to mean, less need for all of the, colleges and universities, the brick and mortars that we're currently seeing. So I think we're going to see because of those demographic shifts, we're going to see a lot more, closures, especially of smaller institutions. We're going to see a lot more mergers in terms of higher ed, and we're going to see a lot more specialization on the part of some higher ed institutions just to survive in this environment where we're not going to need as many institutions as we did before.

In addition, the confluence of that with the assimilation of AI, I think, is going to mean that we are going to be, really needing to, upskill and reskill, a lot of jobs, that, that, that mean more training in creativity and, analysis and just, really sort of high value, ways of thinking about work.

Michael Cato: I can imagine an array of profound implications from that. From. Exactly.

Jackie Bichsel: Exactly.

Mary Beth Baker: Very good. Yeah. I think building up on, what you said, I mean, the financial pressures are there. They're very real. You know, and you're going to see the impact on tuitions. I think we've been talking about this, last bastion of change of higher ed and health care for the last 20 years. I think health care's made a lot of those shifts.

And now, I think because of those financial pressures, higher education is going to be forced that's got forced upon them with, you know, the impacts on research funding being cut, etc.. I think, you know, for me, in the space that I'm living in and the technology space, I as clearly, you know, going to be a change agent not to let's pick on the term of, of agency in AI, but and I think that's coming at two levels.

There's the, the workforce level, how AI is going to impact, the, the staff, the staffing levels, the organizational structures. I mean, similar to what we went through in the shift from on prem to cloud. Organizations are going to have to start rethinking the skill sets that that they need. And the, you know, how do you go about, to your point, upskilling and reskilling the staff?

Which ones will make it? Which ones won't? I mean, I think you'll see impacts on, you know, for example, network monitoring. It might be helpdesk, it might be user design. I mean, we're already seeing a lot of AI impacting the workflow productivity, but I think it's going to start to be more integrative and in how the we know where, where and how the work is being done.

At the leadership level, we're starting to see an emergence, of new positions. You know, whether it's a VP for AI or VP for innovative technology. AI is infusing not just the technology space, but but all leadership levels as well. So I think those are as are kind of what we're seeing, and what we expect over the next five years to just continue to grow.

So with those kind of, sort of shifts in mind that you're talking about when you're when you're working on searches for leadership positions, are you seeing, you know, boards or institutions asking for a different kind of leader now, or are they are they not changing their requirements? It's I don't know that. So at the leadership of technology is exactly that.

It's a leader of technology, not a technical leader. So they are continuing to need someone who has that enterprise viewpoint. I think people that understand and appreciate the, the, the need and need for change management and change management is is hitting on so many different levels, whether it's, you know, again, from a technology perspective, whether it's a workday implementation or an LMS conversion or the introduction of AI, it hits the academic side and the administrative side.

So I think there's more, more pressure on those individuals who know how to affect change management. I think because of the financial, issues that Ed is facing, we're also looking for leaders who know how to to manage the environment, who can help their staff, manage the pressure, the morale issues. I mean, all of those pieces that are coming as higher ed continues to face these enormous headwinds, in, in society.

Michael Cato: So it's a lot of sense, Jackie. It makes me also curious. I would imagine that the wave of retirements you start, you started off describing is likely showing up in the data that Coupa HR already has. Our other aspects of what we're describing already showing up in the data that you're collecting.

Jackie Bichsel: It well, yeah, certainly we're of course, we're certainly seeing a lot more young people in the workforce. And that's going to be relevant to some of the other, conversation pieces we're going to have today, because young people are your highest source of turnover. So they're they're they're the ones who are going to be most likely to leave your organization in the next year.

And so it's really important to focus on retaining those individuals. And just in light of what we just talked about in terms of upskilling and reskilling, you need time to do that. You need time to, to foster, new employees and to train them and to develop them and provide career paths for them. And so focus on retention has, has become just that much more important then.

Cynthia Golden: So, Jackie, one area that's always a concern, especially for it people, is compensation. And from the latest survey data, what did you learn about the role of compensation and what role it plays in employee retention and satisfaction?

Jackie Bichsel: Sure, sure. So here's what here's what our results show very starkly and very interestingly is that, the number one reason employees say that they're going to look for a job in the next year is for increased pay. However, however, and it's a big point here is probably one of the major points of our report that we produced from the survey.

The number one factor that predicts employee retention is the basic tenet of job satisfaction and well-being. And the number one most important, correlate in that factor is a sense of belongingness. So, so what we're what we're seeing is, is employees saying that they, they're leaving because of an increase in pay. But what actually gets them to stay in their jobs is much more basic than that.

It's it goes it goes back to, feeling like you belong in your job, feeling like your work has meaning, you know, having having confidence in your leadership and, and, and having a good relationship with your supervisor, those are the most important aspects of retention that we have found the true over time. Yeah. Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Michael Cato: In some ways, I find that somewhat encouraging, right. Because that suggests that if you can help your employees feel that they belong, you can, you're more likely to retain them. But if you're also trying to recruit someone else, you just need to pay them. Well, yes. So so they both feel actionable, right?

Cynthia Golden: Yeah. Right.

Jackie Bichsel: They do. And you know, it's funny how some of the some of the things that are most important for retention are relatively low cost. But there are also some of the things that are ignored, most often. So not not a whole lot of employees are well, I will say just just slightly more than half, I believe, or part of our results regularly receive recognition for doing good work.

I mean, what I mean, what does it cost to, to to be able to empower your supervisors to do that on a regular basis? It's things like that are just what are most important.

Michael Cato: And Mary like I'm sorry, please.

Mary Beth Baker: No, I we're going to we're going to get to it. Oh no it's okay. No I, I have a lot to say. Okay. Like totally welcome me. No, it's all right. I'll wait. Wait.

Michael Cato: Well, I'll maybe I'll start with a question for you, Mary Beth, that I imagine you get a lot. How does compensation come up and come into play during the executive searches that you work through? And are institutions keeping up with market expectations, or is there continue to be a disconnect there?

Mary Beth Baker: So market expectations, if we're talking about higher end versus private sector, if that's it, if you know market conditions. Absolutely not. And they never will. I mean, it's just impossible. You can't compete with all of those. The benefits of a of a benefits of being in a private, organization, you compete on different ways. You know, if we're looking specifically at kind of the, the dollars, the compensation, you know, generally you're going to find, you know, you know, retirement benefits that are often better.

You'll find, you know, there might be some relocation or moving and or moving expenses, might be professional development budgets, which I think is a really important piece of the package, you know, and additionally, I think people are choosing higher education. And I think we all know this because we've invest in our our professional careers. And it is for, for lifestyle mission.

I mean, there's so much more to the, the, the, the experience and the return for you as an individual than just that than just the paycheck. The paycheck is clearly important. I think higher ed does okay, but it's not it's never going to be able to compete with the private sector.

Michael Cato: So thank you.

Cynthia Golden: So, thinking about some of those non salary factors that relate to retention and how what do you see things like like remote work and hybrid work and campus culture. How do you see those impacting employees? And I think that's a question for both of you.

Jackie Bichsel: Sure. Well, I know that, in our survey, we found that, for instance, the, the hybrid remote factor is, is, extremely important, not nearly as important as job satisfaction and well-being, but it's up there in terms of a significant predictor of retention, and especially for our IT employees. The ability to to have a hybrid work environment or a remote work environment is particularly important for them.

The other thing that we have seen that has risen in importance in the last couple of years, since our 2023 survey, is confidence in leadership, ethics and values. So your, your, the ability for leadership to respond in a crisis. Your employees are paying attention to that. They're they're paying attention to how your values as a leader reflect their values.

And that's become the second most important factor in terms of predicting retention. And I want to emphasize that it's the second most important factor. And that's risen from seventh place in 2023. So two years ago to second place this year. And so I think recent events, political events in particular, as well as how campuses respond to those events, has really played a part in terms of the importance of that factor in retention.

Mary Beth Baker: Yeah. And I think we're actually seeing that as number one, for, for our the people that are in our search that leadership, stability and financial stability are really, really important. For an individual when they're looking at a new opportunity or related to, to make, make a move. I think culture is clearly important. How does how does an organization not only represent their values, but how do they live their values?

And it is really important. And the only way you get to that is, is, you know, talking to the leadership, talking to staff that work in the organization and, and really understanding and asking questions about how people actually, live those values. I think, meaningful work, is really important to keeping individuals, engaged. I think, you know, the professional development opportunities clearly are important.

But at an individual is is more likely to change jobs if they agenda for what they're being expected to do over the next 12 to 36 months is meaningful, and they feel like they can contribute and have impact. I think there's also opportunities that the people are looking at for their their loved ones. Like, is there an opportunity for a partner employment or spousal employment?

I think that's that's really important as you're considering a job shift. And you know, the, the, the hybrid remote work is certainly important. And we're starting to see more of a shift to being in the in the work, in the place. I think people a lot of people are missing that, that, that human contact and that engagement with students, the, the water, the proverbial water cooler talk.

But I think it's also it is more attractive if there is some kind of a hybrid, opportunity. So, I mean, those are some of the kind of the non non payroll, benefits or things that, individuals are looking for.

Cynthia Golden: Well, you know, one of the things I think about with, the remote and hybrid work is really the, the sort of early career and new employers and you know, I think we as a community need to be really deliberate and really paying attention to how we onboard.

Those people so that we can retain them over the long term and that they they feel some affinity to the institution. Yeah. I think it's really hard to create community when you're on a zoom screen. Yeah. I agree, and especially with those 20 somethings, they're looking for the social community because they know they don't they don't have if they're on, on zoom on.

A lot of those 20 somethings were the ones who were, yes, in high school. And they're doing high school from their bedroom because of the pandemic.

Jackie Bichsel: So I think, I think it's important not to paint all employees with a broad brush when it comes to hybrid and remote work, because some people work best remotely, some people work best, and we're in in person. And I think it's important to remain flexible as much as you can, depending on the particular job. And depending on the particular employee.

And what we've seen is that it doesn't have to be all or nothing. What we well, we talk about when we talk about the hybrid, work environment is that most employees would really love to have the flexibility of just one day a week or two days a week where they can work from home. It doesn't have to be a fully remote atmosphere in order for you to, to use that as a, an asset in terms of recruiting or retaining employees.

Michael Cato: It really sounds like that. It people value that because they feel valued. But I have flexibility. I can make some choices that will be better for myself and my family or my situation.

Jackie Bichsel: It's also a matter of trust to employees feel trusted when they, when when their leadership enables them, empowers them to work from home or work from whatever environment is best for them. Yeah.

Michael Cato: Well we've been talking a lot about values and one value that many institutions in higher education have held for the last I take 10 to 20 years is a focus on inclusion and, and for many institutions that has been represented in the form of diversity, equity, inclusion, offices or initiatives, we're now experiencing a time of significant pushback.

And now at the federal level, as well. So maybe Jackie will start by asking, what does a data say about diversity? And are there areas where we're seeing meaningful change, or are there persistent gaps?

Jackie Bichsel: So I'll say this, DNI has been in the higher ed lexicon for, at least a few decades, if not longer. And we've seen a lot of, institutions, really put a lot of money and resources into their DNI initiatives. And, in fact, The New York Times, wrote some articles within the past year about how much, you know, the University of Michigan, just as one example, how how much money they have invested in their DNI efforts.

I will say that what the data show is that we've made little progress. I mean, so little progress in closing salary and leadership gaps for women and people of color in the last 20 years. That it is, it's hard to justify, retaining, that those the same DNI initiatives that we've always had in place. And so, it's, it's I think it's time for a reframing of that.

So, so much has been swept under the umbrella of DNI, that I think the term has become essentially meaningless. And it certainly when it comes to objective measures such as, salary gaps, leadership gaps, we we have we have not even begun to, broach those, those problems. In terms of the initiatives that we have in place.

So we need to take a hard look at it. I don't know that I have any answers for that. So spoiler alert, I don't I don't have any solutions for that. But what we have had in place for the last couple of decades has not worked in terms of those objective measures.

Michael Cato: Mary Beth, anything you would add from your perspective and executive search?

Mary Beth Baker: I mean, for for us in the process, what we are seeing is an increased awareness, and the importance of a diverse and equitable, a diverse process and an equitable process and an inclusive process. And it's important because of the outcome of the objective goal is to hire the best person. That is the way to to go about it, making sure that you really giving make creating a level playing field.

And I think it's it's really important that we continue to focus on building awareness, building the muscle within search committees and universities to understand and appreciate, the value of, of creating that, that, inclusive process and equitable playing field, if you will. You know, it's looking at those, those job criteria that are, that are required versus preferred and like, are we really is this really important to the job and making that that really valuable connection between job description and evaluation criteria?

I mean, there's a whole host of things that that we certainly do on a in A and A and from a process standpoint, to make sure that those, that, that we are creating that equitable process. So I think we need to continue to work in that space. I, you know, I, I, we've certainly seen it, you know, from our placements, we're seeing, you know, at 50% of our placements are, are women, 30% are, people of, you know, minority backgrounds.

So we're certainly proud of that. But there's there is to your point, there's a lot of work that needs to continue in this space. Absolutely. And we're we are, you know, facing headwinds. You know, you know, not only is higher education facing the financial headwinds, but we're we're facing those other headwinds as well in this space, which is unfortunate.

Michael Cato: And I think that's the place I've been worrying a lot that, if it's if all of this effort over all of these years has made such little, improvement at scale, the, move to dismantle them leaves me worried that we're not going to replace them with something that does a better job. Right? Right. We're just going to lose even more.

Jackie Bichsel: Right? And and, you know, the hope is that the data will show that we certainly have a ton of data at this point showing that when you have a diverse workforce, it is a better workforce in all in all, empirical, measurement, you can you can imagine it. It is much better when you have diverse viewpoints coming to the table in any type of work atmosphere.

And you can only hope that the data would bear that out if we, if we had a backslide. However, you know, knowing the data, showing people the data and then acting on that data are different things. So until until we are able to act on that data and, and implement, some of the, initiatives that Mary Beth Firm has, has done.

Until we do that at scale, I don't think we're going to see, the, the improvements that we need. And maybe that's the wake up call that we've needed is that is that is that we've we've we put in all this time and effort at to see such little progress. What do we need to do now, now that we've been forced to scale back, what do we need to do now or to to reconstruct?

Mary Beth Baker: Yeah. How do we continue to I mean, we've planted the seed. How do we continue to nurture that? Right? I think and I think it's shifting the conversation about what is what is diversity mean? I mean, it's obvious what it's it's racial diversity. It's ethnic diversity. It's gender diversity. It's age diversity. It's experience diversity. I mean, there's so many dimensions to it.

And you're absolutely right. I mean, by bringing all of those diverse thoughts and experiences into a workforce or only better. And you can see it. It's so I mean, across sectors that's not just higher education, but we as a society.

Michael Cato: Now, I agree, as long as we add the other piece of bringing those people of of all these differences into environments that are inclusive, right? Because that's that's been the work. All right. So if, if it's just focused on diversity and we're bringing in differences but not into environments that are actually inclusive where their voices will matter, I often joke that we're just going to make everybody mad, right?

Mary Beth Baker: You're absolutely right, Michael. And I think what we're seeing from the the leadership search perspective is that, you know, okay, there's that the tactical process of making sure your, your, your search process is, is equitable. But what we're seeing is looking at the individuals and the qualifications of leadership positions. So what have the individuals done, you know, to create that inclusive community within their teams?

What have they done? How do they think about technology to make sure it's accessible? I mean, and it's and there's so many different pieces to it. It's not just the mechanics, but it's what's the framing of the individual. In their mind. And how do they build that team? So we, we're certainly we're looking for it.

How do they live those values? And you can't just give lip service to it. You've got to be able to demonstrate impact.

Michael Cato: Appreciate that.

Cynthia Golden: I think the next question we were going to ask is really kind of covered already. So maybe we'll jump forward. Michael.

Michael Cato: Sounds good. It does maybe then think of, we touched on this a little bit, but if we think about the events of the last few years, even the last few weeks, how is that reshaping what candidates might want from their jobs, and what their institutions expect of them? Right. I think we've touched on a little bit, but maybe if I if I ask you both to just, describe a little bit, maybe starting Jackie with what the data might be suggesting about what employees are looking for from their institutions and works for sure.

Jackie Bichsel: Well, what our data show is that employees want, more than anything, to feel like they belong in their job. They want their work to be meaningful. They want to be tied to the mission of the organization. They want to be part of that mission, and they want to be rewarded for it. Right? They they they want they want verbal recognition.

They want recognition in terms of pay. I think that the things that are going to improve retention the most, and I know I said this before, are relatively low cost. Making sure that you empower your supervisors, train your supervisors to provide the feedback to employees that is most meaningful for them, having things like stay interviews to to gauge where your employees are and, what, what they need.

From, from their job that they're not getting, regularly verbally recognizing them for the good work that they do, allowing some schedule flexibility and hybrid work, giving employees a path to promotion and to career development is so important. And that is the thing that that the, the professional development that Mary Beth was talking about before, that is the thing that tends to get cut first when budgets are low, right?

As professional development that we've seen so many people who are, who were approved to go to a conference, for instance, and have had those funds revoked, because of budget cuts. It's always the first theory. Yeah, exactly. So so we can't continue to do that and still say that we have retention foremost in our minds.

Mary Beth Baker: My thoughts plus one on all that. I mean, I don't know how much more I can add to that. Like it's really

Cynthia Golden: So if there were one thing, if you were advising a leader. in higher ed, right now on how to.

Better attract and retain top talent, and there was one piece of advice you could give that person, what would it be? Can I make it two? Sure. Maybe. And I'm sorry. I mean, I think one is, identifying and setting as, priorities for the team. And, and advocating for the resources that you need to be able to build that team and deliver on those, those priorities.

Mary Beth Baker: I think it's all too easy, especially in the IT space, for things just to keep coming on. And the staff, they're already overwhelmed by the leadership challenges and the financial challenges. So as you as a leader can create some calm, in these very stressful waters right now, I think that's, that's that's one piece of advice is just really try to set the priorities and, and protect our staff and delivering on those.

And I think the second one is, is creating that environment for sustained professional development. I mean, I know we've said this multiple times and just building on what you were just saying, it's it's not it's not just the sending them to a conference. And I say just because it's in quotes, but it's sending to conferences. It's the it's the credentialing.

But it is truly the please and thank you, the gratitude, the acknowledgment for, you know, a successful completion of a project or hitting a major milestone or even just celebratory in terms of, hey, you go to work or anniversary, you had a birthday. You know, it's just it really is the simple things. And I think it's it's easy to forget those pieces when we're behind the zoom screen.

So I think it's even more important when we're living in this hybrid space with you. I mean, just creating that that community is, is essential.

Jackie Bichsel: Yeah. So so I'll add a third, piece of advice. And this is really an embellishment of, Mary Beth. Second point is, to really focus on your middle managers. Middle managers are so important for employee retention. You you need to employ those, those, middle managers. You need to you need to make sure that they have, the empowerment and the resources in order to manage effectively.

That means the ability to, change their employees schedule when they need to, to to have that flexibility to, to enable them to work remotely or in a hybrid environment when they're able to, rather than setting overall blanket policies for the entire institution that, that, supervisors have to follow. The fact is, is that having a good relationship with your direct supervisor is one of the biggest predictors of retention, right?

If you've got a good relationship with that supervisor, which most employees have, but not all employees, then that is going to keep your you in your job. And when you especially when you've got that path to promotion or that career development or that professional development in place that is going to cement, the the notion in you as an employee that this is the job for you, that they, that your employer cares about you.

Cynthia Golden: Thank you.

Michael Cato: I'll thank you both very much. It's been a really rich conversation. Where can our listeners go if they'd like to stay in touch with you or hear more about your work?

Jackie Bichsel: Well, for CUPA-HR, you can just go to the CUPA-HR website cupahr.org, and you can find all of our, data and research on there, as well as, a whole lot of other resources on the higher ed workforce.

Mary Beth Baker: And you can certainly find us on Phil, Phil Goldstein and I on LinkedIn. Or you can email us, I'm sure that all that information will be provided throughout this. So I just want to just say one more thing. I mean, I'm we're hiring in a, we're in a, a whirlwind right now. I mean, and we are facing so many pressures, from all angles, you know, leadership, financial, political.

But I'm also very optimistic about where we can go. We have so many bright people that are ambitious and want to make change. I'm getting emotional thinking about because I'm, you know, it's. But I think it's really important that we keep charging so well. And I think edge, of course, has given us a forum, to engage the community and to try to hold each other up and support each other through all of this.

Cynthia Golden: I agree, it's really, really important. Yeah. Thank you both. Thank you. To our listeners, as always, if you have suggestions for guests or topics, you can send a note to Michael or to me and you can get our information on the EDUCAUSE website. Thanks a lot.